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80 Comments

  1. 1

    Barbara

    What was that city meeting last night about again? Yeah, this seems like a great idea.

  2. 2

    Martin

    Ok. Thanks for listening MARTA I’m in. Wow.

  3. 3

    Cathy M.

    Martin – You are in? 10 minutes after an article comes out, no elevation renderings, no discussion about infrastructure, etc. Wow!
    I appreciate the changes but have many questions.

  4. 4

    Martin

    Yesssss. I am in! All I needed was for sale residential. MARTA I want this and I want the Stabucks moved from Colnial Dr to this development. Way too cool.

  5. 5

    Jennifer

    I was not able to make the entire meeting but what I heard is there is still work to be done to get the buy in from the people at the presentation.
    The condos and townhomes are in phase 2, the apartments in phase 1 so…. not a 100% done deal as they would be re-evaluated when phase 2 would be ready to go. . They have an 8 story office building and Hotel on Peachtree with a big neon sign on the top of the 8 story building that says Brookhaven “like Ponce City Market” not sure how much light that will thrown in the neighborhood, and a civic space with a large roof top bar on the Apple Valley side (cross your fingers the neighbors like the competing music from Dresden). I didn’t see the renderings but many of the attendees have some issues with the design. They said something about being able to open up the civic space to allow for large public gatherings of 3 thousand or 100 tents for fairs or 1000 people for something like movie night. The over all comments I heard was that it is a “destination” and I honestly thought we asked that it not be so that we did not have all of the traffic coming in to the area.

  6. 6

    Kate

    Love this! We will be here all the time! Walking distance from our house. Definitely prefer a library to a hotel.

  7. 7

    Martin

    Honestly. And you are the resident expert? I for one have had just about enough of the Jennefier show. Between you and about three others who whine about everything we are moving past you. Don’t like it? Move. Bottom line. We are moving past the whiners. Let’s go MARTA. Let’s go Brookhaven. Viva La Brookhaven.

  8. 8

    Pony Boy

    Thanks for stepping it up MARTA. Love the restaurant on the lawn idea.

  9. 9

    SBLP

    I’m curious to see if people really want to buy in the same complex as people rent. So many new condo associations limit or outright ban renters because of the conflicts that arise between people who own vs people who rent. I also can’t wait to see the price range 😉

  10. 10

    City-Weary

    No, not Starbucks! There are enough of those in Brookhaven. How about a Caribou or an independent?

  11. 11

    City-Weary

    A lot of the limiting/banning comes from stipulations from FHA/Fannie Mae regarding residential loans in rental areas. Not the condo association’s rules per se.

  12. 12

    City-Weary

    My feeling is that a TOD is coming regardless of what anyone wants. This revised plan is far better than the original proposal because it brings life to the area and can be enjoyed by the community rather than being a place designed for people to be shuttled in and out of.

    I appreciate the work MARTA has done on this.

  13. 13

    Check the legend at the bottom

    The condos are separated it looks like to me.

  14. 14

    Greg

    There’s 2, and this would likely replace 1. I’m not saying I disagree, but it wouldn’t exactly be a bad thing to replace the one by Kroger. That one gets so backed up.

    I’d prefer an independent one, but I’m not really a frequent coffee shop customer.

  15. 15

    Jennifer

    Martin,
    All I do is let the community know what is going on so you guys can’t do it in secret anymore. If you don’t like it you can move. I am here for the long hall so get used to it.

  16. 16

    Jennifer

    City-Weary,
    You are correct, development is coming and that is not a bad thing. Marta did listen and make some substantial changes to the design, that is a good thing. The community now has an opportunity to give feedback on the design and see if that feedback can be integrated to it. By Marta’s own admission they still have work to do and are hoping that the community will notice that they did take the feedback provided at the meetings in to consideration. As I stated many times, I am not against the development, I am against the community not having a say in something that will affect their city.

  17. 17

    BF Resident

    If it wasn’t for the Jennifer show we’d be looking at the joke MARTA originally offered.

    Sell the property to a private developer so this thing won’t be in the tank from financial incompetence in 5 years.
    Eliminate shared parking on Apple Valley
    The linear park (16) won’t be a park. It will be bioswales because you can’t build in a stream buffer.
    Delineate how many parking spaces in 10.
    Make purchases part of phase one, not some mythical phase 2
    Eliminate Senior or ‘affordable’ housing.
    Get a Sewer Certification from DeKalb County before the Rezoning is approved.
    Absolutely no City Hall where the hotel is supposed to go. Political conflict of interest. They are fine right where they are.

    Don’t like open conversations about our future , you move. If you are in bankruptcy court, you’re probably moving by the end of the year anyway. 85% of homeowner defaults never come back to even.

  18. 18

    Sherry

    I appreciate your keeping us informed Jennifer. What meeting was last night?

  19. 19

    Traffic isn\'t an issue

    It.
    Is.
    On.
    Top.
    Of.
    A.
    Train.
    Station.

  20. 20

    BF Resident

    That
    has
    decreasing
    ridership
    the
    last
    10
    years
    and
    a
    $500m
    operating
    loss.

  21. 21

    Bob

    A train that only goes a few places, not where people need / want to go.

  22. 22

    Susan

    This site will be developed in some form. However, due to current congestion and no sign of road improvements it certainly does not need to be a destination. Martin, did you ever think that instead of wanting our quiet little corner of the world to become Midtown or Buckhead, maybe you should be the one to move?

  23. 23

    Jennifer

    Sherry,
    The meeting last night was the Marta CRB meeting. Bates has chosen a panel that is made up mostly of residents of Brookhaven. (I know one member is affiliated with the chamber and owns land but is not a resident, but I think everyone else is a resident). There are several members of the BPCA (abetterbrookhaven.org) and the rest are HOA representatives or the new addition of 4, who are just neighbors. My understanding is that this group was formed to be the citizens conduit to Marta and their developers and would be bringing information back to the communities and taking information they gathered to Marta. I got involved when it became apparent that only a subset of the community was being informed, those not active in HOA’s and other neighborhood groups were not being met with and the meetings were not well publicized. The public is allowed to attend the meetings but not participate. They get posted on the City calendar usually a day or two before the meetings. There will be another one in about a week from what I understand and then Marta will hold one open meeting for the community prior to the end of the month when they will need to submit to zoning. The planning commission meeting that will be addressing Marta’s zoning request is scheduled for the Wednesday after Labor Day, I think it’s Sept 7th.

  24. 24

    Anointed

    You silly folks. Somehow Brookhaven residents got this city and now it’s full of geniuses. This is too funny to watch. Go find something else to do instead of whining all the time people.

    Message to MARTA: Just don’t do anything and concentrate your efforts back here in a few years when all these geniuses have gotten worn out on whining and complaining. You can’t win here. Unless of course you want to bring in unicorns and rainbows. That’s what these people want.

    Get a life people.

  25. 25

    Barbara

    Any idea where the traffic study is? What is this going to do to Peachtree, Dresden, Apple, and N. Druid? Where is the much hyped traffic circle, its not present in these renderings? How does Marta plan to pay for this when it cannot even pay for itself?

  26. 26

    Joe Palladi

    Traffic study not ready yet. Has to be when they submit for the required rezoning- June1. MARTA TOD members asked many questions/comments. Developer will hold an open house before submitting. May be 3rd week in June .

  27. 27

    You So Silly

    Oh you silly, uninformed, cynical ex mayor dabbling in credit default negotiations and living in a fantasy land with no traffic.

    How’s your life, BTW.

  28. 28

    Sabrina M.

    Jennifer, I appreciate all of your hard work. It is important for the community to be informed and able to make smart growth decisions.
    Martin appears to be only concerned about Martin and may have stared at the sun to much as a child. He’ll move on soon enough.

  29. 29

    parking for transit

    The parking for Marta riders is the furthest from the station tunnel. I know this sounds petty, but a parking garage will add another 3-4 minutes to circle around and find a spot plus another 2-3 minutes to walk out of the deck and to the tunnel (600 ft away). That’s 5-7 minutes added time each way, 10-15 minutes per day. Commuting by Marta currently takes about the same time as driving (assuming you work on the transit line). The additional parking and walking to the tunnel will increase the average trip time by 30% or more. It seems like a small thing, but this will definitely discourage transit adoption.
    Seems like Marta parking would make more sense added to parking decks #5 or #10. Since those decks are heavily residential and retail/restaurants, you could have some shared spaces — Marta during day and residential/restaurant at night.

  30. 30

    drew

    I’m a new to the CRB and found a lot of what was presented to be exciting and innovative – and showed a willingness to listen to the community.

    Unfortunately the traffic data which should be driving much of this process was (IMO) woefully inadequate.

    Most critical to me was the absence of any data which indicates how much of the traffic is discretionary (i.e. pass through traffic that will follow the path of least resistance). This data is necessary to make well informed, strategic decisions about traffic routing or proper mix (e.g. commercial / residential).

    If discretionary traffic rises to capacity (see: Waze) then we need to apply different strategies for those drivers than we do for the people who have few or no route options (e.g. people living or working in Brookhaven).

    We must know what we are contending with in order to identify the proper strategies to employ; I hope that better data will be forthcoming.

  31. 31

    Bob

    Gas is cheap and will remain so.
    MARTA still doesn’t go anywhere.
    The trains are dilapidated from the lack of capital reinvestment and a focus on core competency.
    Ridership will actually decline because of this development.
    They are stuck with the fixed costs of pensions and old trains.
    This new property is to increase revenue.
    Consider all new residents as additional traffic with no traffic plan and increased sewer demand in an area already choking on its own growth.

  32. 32

    SBLP

    Interesting, did not know that! In my mind I think back to all the people who say renters aren’t invested like owners. It would seem like then that someone who is looking to buy would not want to be in a complex with renters. I don’t mean like “oh my direct next door neighbor is a renter” but just “our buildings share a parking garage and our collective property is the same”.

    I also am guessing building 14 will be townhomes? Otherwise they would have to utilize marta parking (building 13)?

  33. 33

    On the Record

    More community open space could be accommodated if parking were below grade. Pedestrian oriented communities create open space, not giving it up for parking.

  34. 34

    Joe Palladi

    Where do you propose the “discretionary” traffic go?

  35. 35

    Joe Palladi

    Have you paid for parking downtown?? Also while on a train you can read, use your computer, sleep, etc….. While some drivers appear to be doing the same by their erratic driving skills, the train is safer. Oh and focus groups on rail/express buses have said it is a lot less stressful. Strangle your steering wheel much? They frown on road rage!

  36. 36

    Kate

    The ridership will drastically increase once the TOD is built. Count my family in as 4 new customers!

  37. 37

    City-Weary

    There is truth to the fact that renters usually aren’t as invested as owners in term of decisions, long term view, etc. ..not that renters are bad residents or neighbors at all, they just have different priorities than someone who is looking at their home as a long term equity building investment.

  38. 38

    Wallace

    When seeking employment, people actually research and weigh the geographical advantage a business location offers. Maybe one day MARTA will actually go where more people want to go. The current Brookhaven Station has free parking. I wonder how paid parking will affect MARTA train ridership.

  39. 39

    Jennifer

    I loved being able to ride Marta, wish it was still an option but my last 2 jobs have not been on the Marta map.

  40. 40

    Samuel

    I work in Buckhead. My commute is wonderful. I live here because of the short commute. I never strangle my steering wheel. I also ride MARTA with the 1% of Brookhaven residents that also use it occasionally. When I do my stress level is off the charts because of the hobos living outside of Arts Center Station, the single tracking dark periods inside the cave, the brick over pizza feel of Peachtree Center and facades like something from ‘Escape from New York Island.”

    Quite frankly, I’ve got it made which brings me back to number one… because I live in Brookhaven.

  41. 41

    parking for transit

    I ride Marta every day to work. Trains are clean and safe, a marta pass is a few bucks cheaper than downtown parking each month, and riding is more relaxing than driving.
    But if the new deck adds another 15 minutes a day to my commute, driving will look much better.

  42. 42

    Bob Sorrentino

    The changes make it more palatable, but will wait for the formal traffic study to make an opinion.

  43. 43

    Gary

    Didn’t you say that you live within walking distance? Why aren’t you currently customers? What is it about the TOD that would make you ride Marta? I smell a three day old fish!

  44. 44

    Eric Robert

    Looks like a vastly improved proposal for a vastly improved train system! MARTA is SMARTA some folks need to stop complaining, when you have a city that Sprawls of course MARTA can’t go everywhere. That’s not transit’s fault but poor land use planning that put density in places far from transit. Still MARTA services the 4 largest work centers (Perimeter Center, Buckhead, Midtown and Downtown) as well as the airport. Yea it doesn’t go everywhere but sure goes where a lot of people need to go to get to and from work. And this will give more people the opportunity to have MARTA as a viable option! Good for Brookhaven, Good for Metro Atlanta and Good for the environment.

  45. 45

    Kate

    We aren’t currently customers b/c there’s nothing inviting about the place right now. The development will bring activity and vibrancy and put it on our radar as a destination. We won’t use it as our main mode of transport- but we will use it more frequently than we currently do (drinks @ TOD then Marta to the Fox, or lunch w/ the kids @ TOD then Marta to the High, kids get older- let them take Marta to Lenox w/ friends…) I shouldn’t have said “the ridership will drastically increase” (b/c I’m no expert) but I do know anecdotally that friends, family, and neighbors are excited that the TOD will serve as a ‘gateway’ to using MARTA more often. Maybe Marta is terrible and we won’t be new customers for long….but I try to be optimistic about these things 🙂
    What’s a 3-day old fish?

  46. 46

    Sandy

    Your story stinks. MARTA ridership will decrease as it did with the Chamblee TOD.

  47. 47

    Barbara

    It’s isn’t Marta’s fault? Really? Then who planned the train tracks and stop locations? I’ve asked you several times to answer why Marta chose not to go to Atlanta Fulton county stadium, they had the space. The answer is because the city owned the lots and didn’t want to lose the revenue.

    All this on the heels of today’s news that the mayor of Atlanta may have been selling airport contracts to friends and family. Why the hell should we trust any of this? Moreover, why should Marta be in the private development business? If they want this so bad why don’t they sell the land and let it be developed privately?

    Ps: Marta’s sandy springs stop is 2 miles from Perimeter Center. I wouldn’t use that as a glaring example of success.

  48. 48

    Dennis

    Not so fast, my friend. Let’s see their traffic study which is sure to illuminate spending to bring NDH/Peachtree and Dresden/Peachtree up to snuff. MARTA has already shared, they have no funds in the budget for traffic.

  49. 49

    MMK

    If you’d bothered to look at the marta map, you’d see Dunwoody station right in the thick of things.

  50. 50

    drew

    That’s a good question – and needs to be addressed once we understand how much of the traffic is discretionary – but, for example, we probably prefer discretionary traffic NOT go through neighborhoods with a lot of pedestrian or bike traffic. (I am sure that there are a number of other considerations to determine how to handle discretionary traffic but as we don’t know to what extent it applies to current and future flow we are not in a position to seriously consider those issues.)

    Once we do understand the level of discretionary traffic then we need to understand how many viable alternatives exist for that traffic and which of those routes are the best candidates for high traffic flow.

    Naturally there are limits to how much we could limit discretionary traffic – but again, allowing for greater traffic flow without identifying its characteristics or understanding the implications makes zero sense in the long run.

  51. 51

    Barbara

    Yes, it is. Just thick enough where you have to take a cab anywhere but chick fil a or home goods.

  52. 52

    Eric Robert

    The Chamblee Whole Foods strip mall is getting an Octane Coffee place. Not a fan of that type of development for intown since its a waste of land but I do like some of the stores coming there.

  53. 53

    Eric Robert

    By the way SIP Coffee has been a long time fixture right outside the southern Lindbergh Marta faregates. Independent and a good rating on Yelp. When I’m using the unlimited rides monthly card I’ll sometimes jump off and grab a morning coffee there.

  54. 54

    Eric Robert

    Well said City-Weary. I don’t know all the details, so there maybe a need for more changes, but from what I’ve seen its an impressive improvement and it looks like a very exciting opportunity to create an attractive gateway to the City of Brookhaven.

  55. 55

    Gary

    Not every piece of land has to be developed with tall buildings. Brookhaven is desirable because it isn’t. If your looking for city life move to the city, if you are looking for a traditional neighborhood, move to Brookhaven.

  56. 56

    Eric Robert

    Martin, Jennifer doesn’t make gross misrepresentations like some of the critics that have written columns for the B Post on this development. And this is a vastly improved design and Jennifer and others who were critical of the first proposal deserve credit for this improved proposal.

  57. 57

    Barbara

    Eric,

    MARTA is being run out of the street car business by the state because they can’t run it efficiently. The city is going to have it taken over by private organizations. Why should we allow a transit system that cannot even operate a 2 mile section of streetcar to build a massive development in our city?

    http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/i-team/156621060-story

  58. 58

    Eric Robert

    Barbara apparently you haven’t read my answers or perhaps you are unable to comprehend. MARTA’s #1 goal is to get people to and from work that his a Monday to Friday issue 52 weeks out of the year. Braves Home games are sometimes during rush hour so its certainly a worthwhile goal but hardly a main goal. Getting a station next to the stadium would have resulted in a station with overall low usage due to the limited # of home games and the lack of other development nearby. Putting a station next to the stadium would have drastically increased the costs since the train would have to cross over I-20 and then cross back over again in order to get to downtown decatur. As to the Perimeter station there are 4 stops, North Springs, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody and Medical Center. All 4 are walking distance from office buildings with significant employee counts and all 4 are also serviced by private shuttles from office parks or hotels in the perimeter Center. But hey yea, they are worthless, that’s why State Farm picked the Dunwoody Station for its new office center complete with a direct entrance to the station.

  59. 59

    Eric Robert

    Peachtree is a state road dominated by regional traffic. The State DOT should certainly chip in significant dollars for improvements. For years they have hidden by a misleading claim that they can’t fund ANY transit related improvements due to the State Constitution re the 1% sales tax they get. So here’s their chance to spend their “restricted” money on a road improvement in DeKalb.

  60. 60

    Matts

    Bates – Bwahahahaha, NOT the person to appoint anything!

  61. 61

    BF Resident

    MARTA is so incompetent the mayor of the one of the most corrupt cities in America is going to take over their experimental street car…BECAUSE OF SAFETY AND SECURITY VIOLATIONS? What part of that news article is a gross misinterpretation of their capability? Please. Enlighten us.

    MARTA wants us to:

    Trust them with a phase 2.
    Believe their drawings without building height specifications.
    Rezone a property so they can build a $250M development, but won’t pay for traffic infrastructure.
    Believe by using green ink on the renderings instead of blue ink we will get a linear park instead of a storm water retention pond in a stream buffer.

    They left part of the effected intersections out of their traffic studies so ARC could ignore Brookhaven when our elected officials ask for help. They still have no sewer impact studies for 3,500 new bathroom breaks per day that is required by DeKalb County Sewer.

    Oh yea, this set of concerns is the exact same set of concerns we had 3 years ago when they began negotiating with the Brookhaven MARTA Citizens Review Board.

  62. 62

    Eric Robert

    Brookhaven is intown. Its not Johns Creek thank goodness. And certainly the single family home low density developments and the tree canopy should be protected but when you are going to build on a major corridor intown why waste all that land on a strip mall? Accommodating growth more efficiently makes it easier to preserve our existing low density areas and our tree canopy.

  63. 63

    Knuckle Heads In the Midst

    you two are so insanely stupid its frightening that you are allowed to go out on your own. The City of Atlanta was in charge of building and running the street car. They brought in MARTA to subcontract the operations. Name a specific material fault cited by the audit and just what injuries or problems have occured because of it. Here’s a dollar go buy a clue. http://atlanta.curbed.com/2016/6/6/11852306/atlanta-streetcar-media-problem

  64. 64

    Jennifer

    If we were talking about replacing strip malls…. you have an argument. Clear cutting and bringing the topography to street level to put hundreds of apartments, offices or retail on a couple of single family lots with old growth trees is NOT preserving low density or our tree canopy.

    If you want to put a Mixed use in at vacant commercial developments I doubt you would have an argument. On a neighborhood street it is not such a good idea.

  65. 65

    Katie

    At least you named yourself appropriately. Apparently GDOT thinks that neither Marta or the City of Atlanta is capable of safely or securely running the Streetcar or they wouldn’t have issued the demand letter to both stating the 60 safety and security issues that need to be addressed by Tuesday or they would shut it down.

  66. 66

    Knuckle Heads In the Midst

    Katie perhaps if you would educate yourself on the process instead of reading shrill headlines from I-team investigations you too would have a clue!

  67. 67

    Katie

    Letters in Nov, Jan and May stating concerns over safety and security along with telling the City and Marta to figur out the day to day management… Not a shrill headline Knuckle Head. Here is the info from Jan: http://arcnewsmanager.atlantaregional.com/templates/?a=59808

  68. 68

    lkaye

    Oh gosh, all we had to say was “Go Away MARTA???” Gee, who knew it was so easy…..

  69. 69

    Eric Sven

    Well, I thought we were talking about this MARTA proposal which is basically just replacing an obscenely large asphalt parking lots.

  70. 70

    Jennifer

    Marta, if the density and mix are done right 100% with ya. I would like to keep the height to 4 – 5 story max on Apple Valley and 6 on Peachtree so that it fits in with the surrounding area. If it were further down on Peachtree next to 3833 I could see an 8 story building but the highest we have near the station is 4 so doubling it is a bit much. Dresden 4 & 5 story buildings next to single family homes… have issues with it. Three story is reasonable, 4 is pushing it.

  71. 71

    Eric Sven

    I’d just like to make sure this gets enough class A office, So that Peachtree in Brookhaven doesn’t turn into a Apartment/Retail corridor. If its 8 or 6 between the tracks and Peachtree, I’d like to see what’s easier to lease out. As to the East Side of the tracks 4 to 5 makes sense and actually it would be nice if the stuff right on Apple Valley was 3 to 4.
    As to further South on Peachtree, yea if its next to a high rise I understand how a taller building could fit in better, but overall density should be lower since its further from the MARTA station.

  72. 72

    On the Record

    It’s good so many folks have opinions on height and who leases / rents. But there are laws in place. The Overlay specifies such things as height. And although there are some proposing a third transition area for the overlay, it doesn’t exist today.

  73. 73

    Enuff Govt Already

    Integral is defined as necessary to make whole or complete. In the case of the B’haven MARTA redevelopment, the development partners will not complete the city of B’haven. One company has landed most of the redevelopments of Atlanta’s housing projects, manages a significant number of those apartments and now is partnering with DeKalb’s Housing Authority. Unfortunately this progect will happen in spite of local opposition because gov’t is driving it. This is a gov’t project to create gov’t housing. I know of no one looking for an apartment, condo or office next to a heavy rail transit station which is also bisected by a railroad. I see no value in that type of property except a low income rental housing. In my business I can’t imagine trying to operate a trendy restaurant where the plates vibrate off the tables evey time the train rolls by. B’haven would be better off with a multi-story parking deck on the back of the station and some aesthetics to the front of the station.

  74. 74

    For the Record

    Overlay is a guide, zoning is the law.

  75. 75

    Eric Sven

    Southbound, Union Hill or Vintage Pizza in Downtown Chamblee all of which sit directly across the street from the Freight Tracks and MARTA tracks are good quality places.. Likewise the townhomes condos and apartments along that stretch are doing well. Intrerestingly and perhaps wisely the latest MARTA proposal is hiding the parking decks between the residential buildings and the train tracks, which will provide buffer from the trains, though again much of the freight and MARTA Gold Line Tracks have all types of housing backing up to it. Some of it is quite expensive. I’d rather live next to a train track than a highway or even Peachtree where you have all that noise and tailpipe emissions.

  76. 76

    Eric Robert

    The Deck at Lindberg and Dunwoody are pretty efficient and don’t add much time. I would think Brookhaven’s would operate like all the other MARTA Decks where parking is free for one day but you have to validate your ticket at the yellow machine inside the fare gates at the station when you leave.

  77. 77

    Kate

    Just like your attitudes stink, Sandy & Gary. I suggest that whilst hiding behind your computer screens making remarks to someone you don’t know, that you’ll remember three things in the future: 1. We are neighbors 2. The golden rule and 3. Keep your comments productive & conducive to the conversation.

  78. 78

    Saul

    I admire your optimism, but history is against your dream.

  79. 79

    Joe Palladi

    I do not think there is a place for a drive thru window!

  80. 80

    Toff

    Sounds like the only place you have ever eaten is the food court at the mall.

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